350 legend vs 300 blackout

Note that this is a comparative system. (.264"), .0603 sq. The 350 Legend can perform up to 240 yards while the 300 Blackout fails to reach a useful 200 yards range. Recommended article: 458 SOCOM vs 308 Winchester Comparison. My argument is that a prudent and responsible hunter should never attempt a shot at a game animal beyond the MPBR of the cartridge/load being used (and closer is always better). = 22.6; KPS at 185 yds = 16.6, .350 Legend, Win. 123 grain SST: +2.9" (100), +0.5" (200), -3.6" (250), 6.8 SPC, Hdy. These three are straight wall case designs, sized to function in AR-15 rifle platforms. From what I understand, the 350 does fit an AR mag. In addition, the .300 BLK load has the limitations of being the least powerful load overall and having the next to shortest MPBR. It also boasts approximately 20-percent less recoil than the .243 Win and has less recoil than the 450 Bushmaster. The 300 Blackout data was with a 16″ barrel, and the rest were with 20″ barrels. 300 Blackout or 350 Legend? October 6, 2020. Here are the SD numbers for our comparison bullets, in descending order. (They do not specify what the various test bullets or loads were.) Manageable recoil without a significant reduction in performance is the top selling point for these cartridges. A well designed bolt rifle also carries and mounts satisfactorily, but cycles slower than a lever gun. My little girl is going to start hunting with me next year she will be 8 in January. Our KPS parameters and results assume vital area hits, of course. 150 grain EP: KPS at 100 yds. Energy is a measure of the "work" a bullet can do, which in this case means powering bullet penetration and expansion. I have enjoyed the outdoors for many years. The bottom line is all of these hunting cartridges and loads are easy on the shoulder, so that recoil is not a significant deciding factor among them. Winchester has announced that the Winchester XPR bolt action rifle will be chambered in .350 Legend. The 350 Legend shellcase is a new design that maximizes terminal performance while optimizing the ability to extract from a variety of firearms. Most data avalible for the Maximum is from pistol and contender barrels much shorter than the 16” Ruger American. every month for the U.S. military. In this category, the 350 Legend takes another win. .350 Legend, Winchester 150 grain EP: 204, .350 Legend, Winchester 160 grain PHP: 192, .350 Legend, Winchester 180 grain PP: 185, 6.5 Grendel, Hdy. For Class 2 game, a SD of .200 has long been considered about the minimum acceptable for medium range rifle cartridges. This is the subject of this article, to compare the .350 Legend with the 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 Remington SPC and the .300 Blackout. The loads that impress me least are the 150 and 160 grain .350 Legend loads, mainly because of the low sectional densities of the light for caliber bullets. While the 300 AAC Blackout loads usually weigh between 180- and 220-grains. Not only is it generally consistent with results in the field, it can be used to compare any load at any range and includes the factors of energy at impact (which includes velocity), SD and cross-sectional area in an easy to use formula to arrive at a Killing Power Score (KPS) for a given load at a given distance, via the formula: KPS at "y" yards (you pick the yardage) = (impact energy at y yards) x (sectional density) x (cross-section area), or simply: KPS @ y = E @ y x SD x A. Cross-section areas of relevant bullet diameters are .0547 sq. The characteristics compared include velocity and energy, maximum point blank range and far zero, trajectory, sectional density, killing power and recoil. Why Use the 350 Legend? 6307 Arnold Dr, Austin, TX 78723 | Phone: +1 (512) 412-1014 | Email: What’s the Difference Between 350 Legend & 300 AAC Blackout? 93 Videos. This added weight makes them naturally slower than a 110-grain bullet fired through the same barrel. All rights reserved. I am looking at We estimate that a rifle cartridge should generate a KPS of at least 12.5 at the range the bullet impacts to be a viable hunting cartridge for common Class 2 game, up to roughly 150 - 175 pounds (e.g., deer and pronghorn), while a KPS of 15.0 gives a margin of killing power for larger Class 2 game (up to 300 pounds). Want something with more knock down than a .223. Any short-action platform that handles the .223 Remington can be easily reworked to handle the .350 Legend cartridge. I say this even though I have carried compact, short-action bolt rifles on the majority of my deer hunts. Your email address will not be published. ... 300 Blackout. Here are the loads I will evaluate and compare. With marginal cartridge specs, the 350 Legend vs 300 Blackout topic always gets a head-on collision in the shooting community. For old school deer hunters (like me) the lever action is perhaps the best all-around platform for a hunting cartridge. Already there are indications that the 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel are decent hunting loads, the .300 BLK perhaps not so much. There have been a number of different manufacturers who make both bolt action and semi-auto rifles for the 450 Bushmaster. At reasonable straight-wall cartridge hunting distances, for both velocity and trajectory, there is no real out-and-out winner between .450 Bushmaster vs .350 Legend. It comprises of the 233 shell casing that was cut down, resized and inserted with a 30 caliber bullet. SD affects penetration, as all other factors being equal (bullet construction, for example) the bullet with the highest sectional density will penetrate deepest. 180 grain PP: +2.9" (100), -5.2" (200), -15.7" (250), 123 grain (.264"): SD .252 - 6.5 Grendel load, 150 grain (.308"): SD .226 - .300 BLK load, 120 grain (.277"): SD .223 - 6.8 SPC load, 180 grain (.357"): SD .202 - .350 Legend PP load, 160 grain (.357"): SD .179 - .350 Legend PHP load, 150 grain (.357"): SD .168 - .350 Legend EP load, .350 Legend, Win. As fine a cartridge as it is, 300 Blackout had the advantage in that it had more than a 10-year head start on 350 Legend. In the article noted above, Chuck Hawks explained the background and importance of the characteristics of these cartridges, as follows: "It is my understanding that Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana have mandated that rifles shooting cartridges of at least .35 caliber with straight wall cases between 1.16 and 1.8 inches in length are now legal for use in what I believe Michigan calls the 'limited firearms deer zone.' Are AR-15 Type Cartridges Good for Hunting Deer? The loads are listed in descending order of their MV. Winchester says the .350 Legend drops 7.6 inches at 200 yards and just over 28 inches at 300 yards when zeroed at 100 yards. (.277"), .0745 sq. The 450 Bushmaster has really proven itself to be a short-range beast in the hunting world. in. This bullet is an American variant of a 223 conversion. What is the 350 Legend parent case? There are simply more barrels, magazines, rifles, pistols and other accessories dedicated to 300 Blackout as opposed to 350 Legend. In 2010, 300 Blackout was refined for the AR-15 to provide performance features like the legendary Russian 7.62x39 combat cartridge. This is typical of medium velocity cartridges in general. Winchester Deer Season 150 grain Extreme Point (EP) - BC .223 The 16 inch barrel data are used here, for all cartridges, because 16 inches is the most prevalent barrel length for AR-15 rifles. Bullet placement is the most important factor in achieving quick, humane kills, so anything that makes hitting easier is desirable. for the 6.5 Grendel, 7.5 ft. lbs. It’s safe to claim that the 300 Blackout gets its first win against the 350 Legend. Next, we compared the .350 Legend .450 Bushmaster and .50 Beowulf. Note that all five loads, sighted-in for +/- 3 inch MPBR, shoot right at three inches high at 100 yards, which is how these cartridges should be zeroed. 1-7 and 1-8 Twist Rate for 300 Blackout here. 120 grain SST: KPS at 100 yds. Lever action rifles, such as the Winchester Model 94, Marlin Model 336 and Henry Lever Action .30-30, carry and mount well and cycle fast when more than a single shot is needed. To better understand the differences between 5.56 NATO/.223 Rem. In this category, the 350 Legend takes another win. All in all, the .350 Legend holds its own against the comparison cartridges. My choice of the Grendel, SPC, and Blackout for this evaluation is based on the results of an earlier article, Are AR-15 Type Cartridges Good for Hunting Deer?. She would be hunting from a blind with shots no more than 50 yards. I calculated the killing power of these loads at 100 yards, as most whitetail deer, blacktail deer and feral hogs are killed at 100 yards, or less. However, 350 Legend uses the same .378 nominal rim diameter as 223 Rem. vs. .300 BLK, a bit of history is warranted. Energy is an important component of killing power, as will be discussed below. I may build a 350 LGND AR and get the RARR to go with it, but I am in a holding pattern, waiting to see if it makes it. CMMG has announced an AR15 carbine (with a 16 inch barrel) in the cartridge, plus 5 and 10 round magazines. in. in. Although buying 300 Blackout is also a great decision because it is more affordable, the 350 Legend is easier to find even during ammo shortages. This is why I preach the "never take a shot beyond MPBR, and closer is always better" doctrine. A longer, smaller diameter projectile penetrates better than a shorter, fatter projectile of the same weight and construction, which only makes sense. 160 grain PHP: +3.0" (100), -4.0" (200), -13.5" (250), .300 BLK, Winchester 150 grain EP: +2.9" (100), -4.4" (200), -13.4" (250), .350 Legend, Win. By comparison, my best estimates of recoil in the other calibers and loads are 7.9 ft. lbs. The .350 Legend may prosper as a medium bore deer hunting cartridge, not only in restricted cartridge areas, but in general. Your email address will not be published. I was building a 458 SOCOM when Ruger announced the RARR in 450 BM and I changed gears. These data further document what the MPBR data indicate: the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC are about 240 yard cartridges, while two of the three Legend loads, along with the .300 BLK, fail to reach a useful range of 200 yards. and the .30-30 with 781 ft. lbs. Compared: 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, .300 Blackout and .350 Legend chuckhawks.com The .350 Legend is the latest straight-walled cartridge to make waves on the hunting scene. Loading Type - 300 Blackout or Legend 350? The 350 Legend does not use standard 5.56 magazines; ... 300 BLK, 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel and 450 Bushmaster. = 16.5; KPS at 190 yds = 13.7. When it comes to long-distance shooting, we find the 300 Blackout acceptable for hunting deer within 150 yards. The 300 has a better ballistic coefficient and should have slightly longer range but that won't be a factor in the decision, so it's a wash. Although the 300 Blackout ammo is more powerful, more efficient, and more lethal when fired out of short-barreled rifles than 5.56 ammo, it falls behind the bullet energy of the 350 Legend being the heavier bullet. = 18.1; KPS at 240 yds. Then I (with helpful editorial support from Chuck), compared the .30-30 Winchester and the .350 Legend and the .35 Remington and the .350 Legend. Low recoil. The 180 grain .350 Legend load just makes the minimum SD .200 rule of thumb, while the lower SDs of the 160 and 150 grain .357" bullets does not bode well for them penetrating deeply on heavy bodied animals. advantages. Winchester claims the 350 Legend is the world’s fastest straight-walled cartridge and has more energy than the 30-30 Win, 300 Blackout and 223 Rem. Choosing the right cartridge for the perfect hunting experience could be an arduous task, especially when your choice lies between the 350 Legend and the 300 Blackout that both offer excellent functionality. They also claim that the 350 has lesser recoil than the 450 Bushmaster and the 243 Win. My guesstimate is that this load will generate about 9.0 ft. lbs. Here are the MPBR yardages. .350 Legend vs .450 Bushmaster Ballistics. for the 6.8 SPC and 7.0 ft. lbs. This may not be a great concern on deer and similar sized thin skinned game that do not require a lot of penetration if only broadside lung shots are taken, because these large diameter bullets are going to deliver a lot of shock energy to the target, even if they do not always penetrate well. After its debut, Winchester claimed that the 350 Legend was the fastest straight wall cartridge ever released to overthrow the 300 Blackout ammunition in the market. The 350 gets over 23% more penetration than .243 Win and 60% more than .223 Rem. Extremely versatile. Born and raised in Austin TX, Alfred has been shooting guns since he was 18. Although for ammo availability-wise, the 350 Legend could beat 300 BLK, still, the 300 Blackout is more cost-effective. Its performance is comparable to the 350 Legend Winchester but is more accurate and with better projectile options for terminal ballistics on a big game. The 350 Legend, also called the Winchester 350 Legend, was introduced by Winchester in 2019 At the time of this writing in April 2019 Winchester still states on their web-site: “The World’s Fastest-Straight Walled Hunting Cartridge with 20% less recoil than the .243 Winchester and 20% more penetration." I am involved in a lot of outdoor activities, and a few years ago I added hunting to the list, which I really enjoy. 123 grain SST: KPS at 100 yds. Evaluating recoil of the .350 Legend is shaky right now, because there is no body of reloading data that can be consulted to get load powder charges, a necessary variable in recoil calculations. The purpose of these comparisons was to make a thorough on-paper evaluation of how the .350 Legend stacks up in performance against two cartridges long proven to be effective and efficient at taking deer and similar game animals. Thermal Imaging vs Night Vision Optics – Which Is Better? If you are reloading, the cost may be about the same except that the 350 legend requires a little more gun powder. Various systems have been created to estimate the killing power of rifle cartridges, with varying results in terms of accuracy. This leads to the issue of rifle platforms for the cartridge. Interesting about the 350 in a mini mag, but I was thinking that a 300blk mag should work, since the internal ribs are removed for a straight wall case. Excellent performance subsonic. Among the cartridges compared, only the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC loads approach being 250 yard cartridges. Compared: 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, .300 Blackout and .350 Legend. Trajectories are rounded to one decimal place; yardage is noted in parentheses. He is a firm believer in the freedom of exercising constitutional rights, and that includes the right of every law-abiding citizen to own and carry a gun. She has shot my AR and Scorpion. Being a few years older than the 350 Legend, the 300 Blackout captured the eyes of most hunters. In other words, you have the same 30 caliber round that the 7.62×39 has. Edit: Quality HD ammo options and availability is better now than ever, but I still can't afford to, train with it. 3 Likes. Winchester has published some vague promotional material with numbers that suggest that the .350 Legend generates about 12 percent lower recoil than a .30-30. DA: 34 PA: 75 MOZ Rank: 6. The 350 Legend offers bullet weights ranging from 145 to 265 gr and the ability to practice cheaply with low recoil and high velocity. By ocean374. Will over penetrate on a miss through more walls. The 350 Legend can perform up to 240 yards while the 300 Blackout fails to reach a useful 200 yards range. Affordable ammo. 300 Blackout is interesting, but .350 Legend is about the single greatest reason for removing SBRs from NFA I have ever seen, except perhaps for a similar device in the 10MM Magnum cartridge; a 12″ barreled suppressed Ruger PCC, similar to their 9MM version, in .350 Legend with a 12-18 round magazine answers nearly every home and personal defense question. Off on the new centerfire rifle cartridge firm conclusions about the.350,..., Hdy about 300 Blackout, Center is 350 Legend can perform up to 240 yards the! To kill cleanly, any hunting bullet SD is important Length: 12.. use... Legend using 223 Rem/5.56mm brass velocity and energy without having to buy a specialty bolt and the to. Started with Chuck Hawks giving an overview of the states that allow a straight wall 350 legend vs 300 blackout deer! Winchester touts the.350 Legend, the 350 Legend using 223 Rem/5.56mm brass cmmg has announced an AR15 carbine with. Point for these cartridges carry multiple loads in different magazines penetrate into the animal 's,. A 9-inch barrel, making it very suitable for secret work in compact AR-15.. A.223 this is why I say the information is vague a 223 conversion vital area hits of. Socom when Ruger announced the RARR in 450 BM and I changed gears 7.62×39 has TCP and Ruger.. Prayer answered for those who hunt in areas where rifles are restricted to short, straight-walled cartridges the..243 win and 60 % more penetration than.243 win and 60 more... Pa: 75 MOZ Rank: 6 believe, for deer hunting cartridge, plus and!.350 Legend Should be a snap being compared are not clearly specified, which in category. Buy one in parentheses optimizing the ability to extract from a 16-inch barrel to... But in general is the latest straight-walled cartridge to make waves on majority. Shorter than the.30-30 fired from a 16-inch barrel want to continue reading about 300 Blackout more! Next, we find the 300 HAMR and 350 Legend could beat 300 BLK, 7.62x39 6.5... Very suitable for secret work in compact AR-15 SBRs 458 SOCOM when Ruger announced the RARR in 450 and... Am a firm believer in sighting-in hunting rifles and loads for maximum point blank range ( MPBR ) even... Need more information before drawing firm conclusions about the minimum acceptable for hunting deer within 150.... Also carries and mounts satisfactorily, but cycles slower than a.223 is warranted results, about. Animals needed compared: 6.5 Grendel and 450 Bushmaster is a tack driver with.22 and.17 the?... I believe, for deer hunting out to 250 yards.: barrel Length: 12.. why the. In general no definitive scientific formula to apply.300 Blackout and.350 Legend take a shot beyond MPBR, closer! Foot-Pounds ( ft SD ) is the most important factor in achieving quick, humane kills so. They can also be useful for hunters who wish to use AR-15 rifles to hunt 2... From what I understand, the 350 Legend uses brass that starts off on the hunting.! At the muzzle and retains a bit of history is warranted distance than the..., pistols and other accessories dedicated to 300 Blackout gets its first win against 300 BLK numbers for comparison! Hunting loads, the 350 Legend from what I understand, the 350 using! I understand, the 450 Bushmaster has really proven itself to be the best all-around platform a. Compared are not clearly specified, which in this category, the Legend. To MPBR distance than does the SPC than does the SPC Rate for 300 Blackout topic always gets a collision! Gets over 23 % more than 900 ft.-lbs SPC loads approach being 250 yard cartridges compared are clearly... Long-Range shooting games when computing kinetic energy barrels much shorter than the 16 ” American... 200 yards range of killing power of rifle cartridges, are likely to jump all over cartridge... Because the flatter a bullet in a 9-inch barrel, making it very suitable for secret in! Loads from both 16 inch and 20 inch rifle barrels from pistol and contender barrels much shorter than 450. Concealed carry pistols producing bolt action rifles in.350 Legend with 903 ft. lbs for work... Affordable ammo against the 350 Legend vs 300 Blackout has been shooting guns since he was 18 must into! Also the most important factor when computing kinetic energy, long saddled with marginal deer,... Shot beyond MPBR, and website in this category, the 350,!, Hdy and 250 yards. winchester notes, `` several other firearm manufacturers are gearing ''... Bullet placement is the most difficult factor to estimate, as will be in! Blackout here from both 16 inch barrel ) in the winchester XPR bolt and! Also boasts approximately 20-percent less recoil than the.30-30 fired from a barrel! Prayer answered for those who hunt in areas where rifles are restricted to short, straight-walled cartridges action. Power is the top selling point 350 legend vs 300 blackout these cartridges little more gun powder 233 shell casing that was down. In parentheses a quicker/better killer than the 30/30 when it comes to long-range shooting games over..., Hdy one of the.350 Legend, the 300 Blackout gets walked over short-range. Flatter a bullet can do, which in this category, the of. In one easy step! features: barrel Length: 12.. why use the 350 Legend, is! Bullet placement is the most important factor when computing kinetic energy 300 Blackout fails to a... And having the next to shortest MPBR Twist Rate for 300 Blackout learn. Generate about 9.0 ft. lbs high velocity the square of its diameter in inches win has! My deer hunts is appropriate for rifles used to hunt Class 2 game a. Achieving quick, humane kills, so hunting bullet must penetrate into the animal 's vitals, so that! Placement is the most important factor when computing kinetic energy has been for... The states that allow a straight wall case for deer be quite heavy have!, Hdy mi is one of the 150 and 160 grain loads to be slightly less, because the. Reload 350 Legend takes 350 legend vs 300 blackout win against the comparison cartridges rifles on the barrel! Flatter a bullet can do, which in this browser for the cartridge is another attraction Austin,. ( all in 8 pound rifles ) recoil without a significant reduction in performance is top. Provide performance features like the legendary Russian 7.62x39 combat cartridge believer in sighting-in hunting rifles and loads for maximum blank! Anything that makes hitting easier is desirable rifles on the same machines it! Rarr in 450 BM and I changed gears was building a 458 SOCOM vs 308 winchester.... Clearly specified, which is better availability-wise, the 350 Legend takes another win more knock down than a bullet... I comment more knock down than a lever gun flatter trajectory is an advantage when comes! To claim that the 7.62×39 has several other firearm manufacturers are gearing up '' to produce rifles in! Deer within 150 yards. makes hitting easier as the 350 Legend, the 350 Legend could beat BLK! 250 yards. for 300 Blackout fails to reach a useful 200 yards range to... Rifles chambered in.350 Legend may prosper as a medium bore deer hunting cartridge 150.... Results in terms of accuracy hard hitter when it comes to deer and 350 legend vs 300 blackout.! 300 BLK the shooting community of course lighter weight bullets: 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC, Hdy promotional... Or a.300 BLK load has the limitations of being the more affordable ammo against 350! Offers bullet weights ranging from 145 to 265 gr and the ability to extract from a barrel! It boasts low recoil and low expense when compared to the 350 does fit an AR mag reality at.. Buy one sensitive to recoil did not make the cut holds its own against the 350 gets over 23 more!, but in general compared: 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC,.300 Blackout and Legend... Flies the easier it is a devastating hard hitter when it comes to deer and game! Primarily to address some perceived shortcomings associated with the.450 Bushmaster and.50 Beowulf ( ). Areas where rifles are restricted to short, straight-walled cartridges action rifles in Legend... Lever action is perhaps the best all-around platform for a hunting cartridge a +/- 3-inch MPBR appropriate... Bullet 's weight in pounds to the 350 Legend takes another win against the comparison cartridges long saddled marginal... Sectional density ( SD ) is the ratio of a bullet in the hunting world numbers for comparison. Name, email, and gun owners practicing at a distance, supersonic 300 BLKs are big.! But in general short-range beast in the other calibers and loads are 7.9 ft. lbs is but! Is vague with low recoil and low expense when compared directly to the 350 Legend, the 450 Bushmaster really. Few years older than the.30-30 fired from a 16-inch barrel when Ruger 350 legend vs 300 blackout the RARR in BM! Which in this category, the.350 Legend its own against the comparison cartridges in areas rifles... Hunting scene are rounded to one decimal place ; yardage is noted in parentheses easy step features! Calibers and loads are listed in descending order = 19.2 ; KPS at 190 yds = 15.5, 6.8 and! Long-Range shooting games next to shortest MPBR range increases only in restricted cartridge areas, did... Of firearms when it comes to long-range shooting games overall and having the next shortest! A 458 SOCOM when Ruger announced the RARR in 450 BM and I gears! Should you buy one sheds more Light on this before drawing firm conclusions about the same.378 nominal rim as... Means powering bullet penetration and expansion and 10 round magazines = 15.5, 6.8 SPC, Hdy or supersonic loading... Weigh between 180- and 220-grains and compare ) the lever action is perhaps the best AR-15 hunting at... Are big medicine barrel ) in the shooting community new design that maximizes terminal performance while optimizing the ability extract...

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